Genocide by God

inquiry

Samuel 15:3
"Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do
not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and
sheep, camel and donkey."

This is a clear call to "ethnic cleansin" or to put it more bluntly,
genocide. The god of the Bible is evil, not the loving god that
Christians like to portray.

first response

It is important to know something about the history and background of 
the Canaanites.

Glenn Miller has a fine article on this:

How could a God of Love order the massacre/annihilation of the 
Canaanites?
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qamorite.html

Please let us know if you wish to discuss this further after reading 
Glenn's article.

Sincerely,

first reply

I went to the article you indicated, but it didn't answer the question.

Given the Amalek did oppose the Children of Israel when they were
trying to move into Israel, that was 400-500 years before the
massacre ordered by god to be committed by Saul as stateted in 1
Samuel 15:3.

The article tried to justified the genocide by saying the Amalek had
300 years to recognise that god had given that land to Israel.
First, where is the evidence for that? Second, how would the Amaleks
recognise that god had done that. If today, I tell you, god has told
me to come and occupy your house, would you accept that argument?

Even allowing for the argument that the Amaleks were evil, did it
mean that infants were to be killed too? INFANTS.
Ezekiel 18:19-20 stated "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the 
father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son".

This was clearly violated in the genocide of the Amaleks, where 
children and infants were slaughtered.

This particular instance of genocide was not the first ordered by 
the so called god in the Bible. Another instance was in Numbers 
31:17-18
"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every 
woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women 
children that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for 
yourselves".

This passage even commanded the Children of Israel to keep alive 
only those virgins for themselves.

The blood thirtyness of the Bible is again celebrated in this Psalm. 
Psalm 137:8-9 "O daughter of Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall 
they be who pay you back what you have done to us! Happy shall they 
be who take your little ones and dash them against the rock!" Again, 
a celebration of the killing of children.

Can you honestly say you believe in a god of love?

No matter how sinful, degenerate or call you whatever about the 
adults, are there offsprings to be killed?

Don't tell me that in war, sometimes the innocents are also killed. 
That's only true in modern warfare when bombs and explosives are 
used, and basically, the people who fired the shells or dropped the 
bombs do not actually see their victims. In war thousands of years 
ago, the fighting was hand to hand. You could actually see into 
whose body you stuck your sword. So the "Chosen people of god" could 
actually see that it was infants and children that they stuck their 
spears and swords into their body, just like what happened when the 
Japanese Imperial Army went on a rampage in Nanking during the 
Second World War. They used the Chinese civilians, including
children and infants for live bayonet practice, when they actually 
stuck their bayonets into the bodies of their victims. For this, 
after the war, they were tried and hung as war criminals.

Yes, your god is a war criminal.

second response

Thank you for writing again. I did not want to leave you without a 
satisfying answer if possible. I am asking my Paraclete Forum team
for additional help since the topic is a difficult one.

The Biblical view of man, since the Fall of Adam, is that we are all
totally depraved and guilty before a holy God. This may not seem to
be the case by our own standards, but this indictment is measured
against the character of God. Therefore, He could destroy us all if
He wished, and in so doing would be just and fair.

Instead God extends mercy and forgiveness to all men everywhere. He
does not desire that anyone should perish. He would like everyone to
accept His kindness and become His children.

In order to make this possible at all, God had to pay an enormous
price in the suffering, eternal anguish and death of His Son, Jesus.
That was how the price of human sin was paid for so that the scales
of justice would be balanced.

Paul; says, "For the love of Christ controls us, because we are
convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died.  And he
died for all, that those who live might live no longer for themselves
but for him who for their sake died and was raised.  From now on,
therefore, we regard no one from a human point of view; even though
we once regarded Christ from a human point of view, we regard him
thus no longer.  Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new
creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come.  All
this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and
gave us the ministry of reconciliation;  that is, in Christ God was
reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses
against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.  So
we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We
beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake
he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become
the righteousness of God." (2 Cor. 5:14-21)

In some cases groups of human beings refuse God's love and mercy for
many generations. When this happens they become hardened in heart and
their open depravity increases. The Canaanites were this kind of
people. God waited a full 400 years to give them every opportunity to
come to Him. They refused. Their cities were full of dangerous
sexually-transmitted diseases. They sacrificed their babies to idols,
their family values were non-existence. They were cruel and violent
people. If you were God how would solve the problem? Would you let
their evil spread to the entire world, polluting everyone, like a
great cancer?

>I went to the article you indicated, but it didn't answer the question.
>
>Given the Amalek did oppose the Children of Israel when they were
>trying to move into Israel, that was 400-500 years before the
>massacre ordered by god to be committed by Saul as stateted in 1
>Samuel 15:3.

The warning about the sinful state of the Amalekites was given to
Abraham. God told Abraham their judgment was to be delayed. 400+
years later the people of Israel left Egypt, but the Amalekites
pursued, picking off the weak, the old, the lame and infants. Forty
years later the Jews entered the land under orders to eradicate he
land of Cannanites so their evil and idolatry would not corrupt the
newly holy people of God. The incomplete obedience of the Jews caused
that very thing to happen--Canaanite idolatry nearly ruined Israel
later on.

Saul lived much later still--after Moses, after Joshua, after the
Judges.

>The article tried to justified the genocide by saying the Amalek had
>300 years to recognise that god had given that land to Israel.
>First, where is the evidence for that? Second, how would the Amaleks
>recognise that god had done that. If today, I tell you, god has told
>me to come and occupy your house, would you accept that argument?

In Genesis. In fact Noah warned his son Ham that the grandson Canaan
has the potential for great evil.

>Even allowing for the argument that the Amaleks were evil, did it
>mean that infants were to be killed too? INFANTS.
>Ezekiel 18:19-20 stated "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the
>father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son".

Ezekiel wrote to God's people Israel--to responsible adult sons and
fathers who knew God or should have by virtue of their covenant with
Him. .

>This was clearly violated in the genocide of the Amaleks, where
>children and infants were slaughtered.

God is incapable of evil or murder. He sets the standards.

>This particular instance of genocide was not the first ordered by
>the so called god in the Bible. Another instance was in Numbers
>31:17-18
>"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every
>woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women
>children that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for
>yourselves".

Imagine a situation where disease so riddled a city that everything
in the village, all the people, the buildings, the animals had to be
burned up to stop the disease which threatened the rest of mankind.

>This passage even commanded the Children of Israel to keep alive
>only those virgins for themselves.
>
>The blood thirtyness of the Bible is again celebrated in this Psalm.
>Psalm 137:8-9 "O daughter of Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall
>they be who pay you back what you have done to us! Happy shall they
>be who take your little ones and dash them against the rock!" Again,
>a celebration of the killing of children.
>
>Can you honestly say you believe in a god of love?

Loving, most certainly. Merciful, very much. Holy, yes, Just, yes.
Real love can not allow evil to spread out of control indefinitely.

>No matter how sinful, degenerate or call you whatever about the
>adults, are there offsprings to be killed?
>
>Don't tell me that in war, sometimes the innocents are also killed.
>That's only true in modern warfare when bombs and explosives are
>used, and basically, the people who fired the shells or dropped the
>bombs do not actually see their victims. In war thousands of years
>ago, the fighting was hand to hand. You could actually see into
>whose body you stuck your sword. So the "Chosen people of god" could
>actually see that it was infants and children that they stuck their
>spears and swords into their body, just like what happened when the
>Japanese Imperial Army went on a rampage in Nanking during the
>Second World War. They used the Chinese civilians, including
>children and infants for live bayonet practice, when they actually
>stuck their bayonets into the bodies of their victims. For this,
>after the war, they were tried and hung as war criminals.

War is a great evil, a consequence of human evil. Yes, the innocent
suffer in wartime. There are terrible evils and injustices in the
world that are not God's fault, but ours.

>Yes, your god is a war criminal.

Can you tell me what your god is like and how he would handle all
this human situation in a different manner? I'd be very interested. I
don't think the real God will mind if you speculate a bit. These are
very difficult issues to deal with. I find it a valuable exercise to
ask myself what I would do differently if I were God?

Sincerely,

second reply

Hitler and his gang said the Jews were vermin, and so 6 million were 
killed.

Your god, killed infants, in the name of love? All those passages 
demonstrate was your god was powerful, not loving, not merciful. 
Your god demand blind obedience, submission, that's all. And, 
incidentally, the word "islam" means sumbission. The two semitic 
religion, Christianity and Islam, in their fundamental sense, just 
demand submission.

Milosovic could have quoted the Bible to defend his ethnic cleansing 
of the Muslim in Kosovo. The Muslim were worshipping a "false god" 
(by the Christians' definition), the Muslim have been there for 
around 400 hundred years, were given a chance to change to
Christianity, but they did not, therefore by the Biblical logic, and 
by yours, the Muslims in Kosovo deserved to be killed, men, women 
children and all.

Where in the Bible was there any indication that the Amalek 
practiced infant sacrifice? Where in the Bible was there indication 
that the Amalek were full of veneral disease? Does having veneral 
disease deserve the death penalty? You said the Canaanites were 
cruel and violent people. Where did it say that? And would you say 
that the order to "kill all men, women and children not cruel and 
violent?"

You said,"Therefore, He could destroy us all if He wished, and in so 
doing would be just and fair." A child who has created a toy could 
destroy the toy as he wish. Is your god that child and we are just 
his toy?

Even a child, who has rescued a puppy from the gutter, if he then 
whimsically kills the puppy is considered a cruel and ignorant 
child, let alone a god, (who in your system of believe is omiscience 
and omnibenevolent) can kill an infant just because he has declared 
the infant sinful. And the sin was not the doing of the infant but 
of this anscestor known as Adam.

Hitler and his gang believed that the Jews were sub-human. They 
defined the Jews were sub-human and therefore had to be killed. 
Then, if one of them become grovelling, begs for forgiveness, and 
Hitler didn't kill him, was Hitler then a loving and merciful 
person? This is the same situation here. According to your logic, by 
god's definition, the Amalek infant was defined as sinful (what has 
he done?), and it was alright to kill him. If he was not killed, it 
was only through god's kindness and mercy.

In bare essential, the Christian system is this. "A" has done 
something wrong. "B", who is "A"s son is now pronounced as liable to 
punishment. The judge now has every right to punish "B". But the 
judge instead of punishing "B" decided to punish his own son "C". 
Now "B" is let off the hook. "B" should be grateful! Is this justice?

third response

The Bible tells us that the Lord is absolutely sovereign over everyone
and everything in the Universe at all times.  God is master over all
life and death.  He can give life and take it away at His will because
of His position as Creator and Lord of the Universe.  So we see that
everyday people are born and others lose their lives.  People lose their
lives in natural disasters, accidents, old age, or other "natural
causes."  And some lose their lives in wars and murders.  This includes
infants as well.  But in all cases no one loses their life without God
allowing it.   So, because of God's unique position of authority in the
Universe, God has authority to take away a person's life at any time He
wills; yet we do not have that authority. In our own daily experience we
understand this sort of thing in something like the right of the fireman
to speed on the highway during the exercise of their duties whereas an
ordinary citizen would be breaking the law.

But another aspect of Creation is the delegation of God's sovereign
authority through His creation.  We see this demonstrated in things as
simple as the physical world sustaining life.  That is, all life comes
from God and He sustains all life.  However, we are dependent upon air,
water, and food - among other things - to sustain our life.  God has
delegated various parts of his creation to maintain life though He
ultimately directs their activities.  Luke describes this principle of
delegation in an account of Jesus:

"And a centurion's slave, who was highly regarded by him, was sick and
about to die. When he heard about Jesus, he sent some Jewish elders
asking Him to come and save the life of his slave. When they came to
Jesus, they earnestly implored Him, saying, 'He is worthy for You to
grant this to him; for he loves our nation and it was he who built us
our synagogue.' Now Jesus started on His way with them; and when He was
not far from the house, the centurion sent friends, saying to Him,
'Lord, do not trouble Yourself further, for I am not worthy for You to
come under my roof; for this reason I did not even consider myself
worthy to come to You, but just say the word, and my servant will be
healed. For I also am a man placed under authority, with soldiers under
me; and I say to this one, "Go!" and he goes, and to another, "Come!"
and he comes, and to my slave, "Do this!" and he does it.' Now when
Jesus heard this, He marveled at him, and turned and said to the crowd
that was following Him, 'I say to you, not even in Israel have I found
such great faith.' When those who had been sent returned to the house,
they found the slave in good health." (Luke 7:2-10)

And so it is with human governments as well.  God has delegated His
authority through people.  This includes God's delegation of authority
to take away life.  Though individuals do not have the authority to take
anyone's life to extract justice, God has given this authority to human
governments.  Certainly governments abuse this authority and will have
to give account to God on what they did with what they were given.

Israel was given a special position among all nations of the earth.
They were to be God's representative nation that presented God's will
before the world.  God validated this to them and everyone else around
them with their exodus from Egypt, which was accompanied by God's
demonstration of power and authority over all the earth. This special
relationship that God set up between the nation of Israel and Himself
does not extend to the Church. The covenant that God made with Israel
was with a *nation* whereas the covenant He has made with those who
enter into the Church is not with any particular nation but with
individuals from every nation on earth. Part of this covenant with
Israel includes such things as civil and judicial laws, which cannot be
applied to the Church (since they do not constitute a particular
nation). Each Christian congregation is not to set up laws like Israel
had to govern themselves but each is subject themselves to the
established secular authorities and laws.

But what about the innocent children and infants that were killed along
with the guilty adult Amalakites?  Children die everyday then just as
they do now.  If life on earth was all there is then this might be
considered a total loss for these children.  But God is loving and just
and will take care of these children appropriately.  They do not face
the same fate as the adults.  God will keep them safe.  God is just.

Sincerely,

third reply

You asked me the nature of my God and how would He respond to the 
present situation. You also mentioned the mess of a world situation 
we are now in.

First, I think we are living in a better world now than before. Life 
expectancy in advanced countries is now in excess of 80 years, and 
even in such backward countries as in Africa, it is in excess of 40. 
Barely, 100 years ago, even in advanced countries, life expectancy 
was only around 50.

Literacy rate is now higher, with literacy rates in advanced 
countries in excess of 95% and in backward countries around 10-20%. 
If you consider that barely 100 years ago, the literacy rates were 
much lower.

We now have wiped out small-pox. Polio is due to be wiped out. Yes,
for the last 10 years, AIDS was rising, but in the advanced 
countries, once the disease was understood, and people were educated 
as to how AIDS was spread, the incidence of AIDS had stopped rising. 
Only in Africa and Asia, for cultural and religious reasons, many 
people were not practicing safe sex is the incidence of AIDS continue 
to rise.

The control of small-pox, polio etc. was not due to religion. It was 
due to an understanding of science. If we are all to believe 
literally in the Bible, Mark 16:17-18 "These signs shall follow them 
that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak 
with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any 
deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the 
sick, and they shall recover" there shall be no need for doctors or 
medicine. Do you think the world will be a healthier place if we 
remove all the doctors and nurses from the face of the earth? 
Alternatively, do you think the world's health would be worse if we 
remove all Christian priests?  Incidentally, based on this statement 
of Christ, I would say I have never met a true Christians. Look again 
at the quote, "...and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not 
hurt them.." I have yet to see a believer drink cyanide to prove the 
point.

The incidence of cancer is rising, that's because we have more old 
people. Incidence of cancer rises with age, and with more old people 
around, it is natural to see more cancer. Yes, I know there are cases 
of cancers in the young, and this might be due to environmental 
pollution. That is one area where society has to find ways and means 
of controlling. The solutioin is not in the Bible. Does the Bible 
know anything about environmental pollution?

I do not pretend to be able to read God's mind, and therefore I 
cannot say how would God deal with a particular situation. But based 
on my believe in a loving God, I do not believe He would order 
genocide. Genocide, whether committed by the Jews, or by the Germans, 
or by the Japanese, or by Milosovic, is evil. Period.

Yours sincerely,

fourth response

I'm afriad you have missed some important points of my argument.  I will 
summarize it here:

1) God is sovereign over the whole Universe
2) God has delegated some aspects of His authority to His Creation
3) Some of this delegated authority occurs in human governments
(authority for some things, such as the execution of justice, does not
reside in individuals).
4) Israel, as a nation, has some of God's delegated authority.
5) Israel's delegated authority is special in that God desired that His
perfect will would be evident in them - as a nation.
6) The works that God did for Israel in Exodus validated Israel's
special position.
7) God chose to use Israel, as God's representative, to show his justice
towards the Amalakites. (Although God can use any nation He desires to
do this they may not know that God is doing what He is doing.  In
Israel's case God had shown them that He intended to use them for this
purpose.)
8) The young Amalakite children who died are under God's special
protection.

Look particularly at point #6 above.  We cannot say the same thing for
any other nation on earth.  No other nation or group has ever been
validated by God by events like we see in Exodus.  Just because someone
considers themselves the "chosen people" or "God's representative" does
not make them so.  But Israel, as a nation, had that validation.  The
execution of God's justice on the Canaanites and the Amalakites was done
under the direction of God and validated by God because of God's
miraculous works when Israel was created as an independent nation and
God made a special covenant with them.  Did the Nazis ever have the
English Channel open for them so that they could proceed to England?
Did Imperial Japan ever have supernatural plagues come down on the
United States to demonstrate their special position?  Was the Nazi army
or Japanese fleet ever fed my manna from heaven?  The only nation
that ever experienced this was Israel.  You will note that I keep
mentioning Israel as a "nation."  This is important because the
Christians do not constitute a nation on earth.  The covenant God made
with anyone who desires to be a Christian is on an individual basis and
not a covenant with a nation.  Thus, Christians do not have the same
kind of authority of a nation, like Israel; their covenant with God is
not of the same nature as that of Israel.

Now the question arises as to how we can be sure that God has indeed
done these miraculous things to validate His covenant with Israel and
His other covenant with the Christian.  I suggest that you look at Josh
McDowell's book The New Evidence that Demands a Verdict.  McDowell
presents a preponderance of evidence for the validity of the Bible from
a variety of different angles.

The central point for validating the Christian's relationship with God
is the resurrection of Jesus from the dead.  McDowell covers this topic
as well.  Some other books that also present evidence along these lines
include:

"Who Moved the Stone?" by Frank Morison

and

"Leading Lawyers' Case For The Resurrection" by Ross Clifford

Following are a couple of books that go into the reliability of the New
Testament:

"New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?" by F.F. Bruce
(you can read access this on the Internet at
http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/ffbruce/ntdocrli/ntdocont.htm

and

"The Historical Reliability of the Gospels" by Craig L. Blomberg

Sincerely,

fourth reply

You said the following:

1) God is sovereign over the whole Universe
2) God has delegated some aspects of His authority to His Creation
3) Some of this delegated authority occurs in human governments
(authority
for some things, such as the execution of justice, does not reside in
individuals).
4) Israel, as a nation, has some of God's delegated authority.
5) Israel's delegated authority is special in that God desired that His
perfect will would be evident in them - as a nation.
6) The works that God did for Israel in Exodus validated Israel's
special position.
7) God chose to use Israel, as God's representative, to show his
justice towards the Amalakites. (Although God can use any nation He
desires to do this they may not know that God is doing what He is doing.
 In Israel's case God had shown them that He intended to use them for
this purpose.)
8) The young Amalakite children who died are under God's special
protection.

Statements 1 to 3 are your believes, and they can neither be proven nor
disproven.
Statement 4, Israel, as a nation, has some of God's delegated
authority, also is your belief and again, it can neither be proven nor
disproven. This particular statement however has an added difficulty.
There was a time in history in the Palestine, when there were two
nations, Judah and Israel, supposedly descendents of Jacob. So, at that
time, which nation would you be referring to? In fact, there was a time
when they were at war with each other, Israel sided with Syria against
Judah, and god was on the side of Judah: (Isaiah 7:1 And it came to pass
in the days of Ahaz..king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and
Pekah..king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it.")
Statement 5 that god desired his perfect will would be evident in
Israel as a nation is your belief again, aside from the Bible, what
external proof do you have?

Statement 6, "The works that God did for Israel in Exodus validated
Israel's special position." Let's look at this. You quoted the plagues
as evidence of god's support for Israel.

In 1275, the Mongolians, whose empire at that time stretched from China
to the Danube, were about to invade Japan. The Mongolian staging area
was Korea and their armada set sail for Japan. They were planning to
land in Kyushu. If they had landed, Japan would become a part of the
Mongolian Empire. A typhoon erupted, and the Mongolian armada was sunk,
saving Japan. The Japanese viewed that typhoon as god's given, the
Japanese viewed that as prove that they were god's chosen people. That
typhoon was name "Kamikaze". Yes, that's the orgin of the word kamikaze,
"Kami" means god in Japanese, and "kaze" is wind. (I can speak and write
Japanese).

In 1941, after taking off from the aircraft carrier early in the
morning on their way to bomb Pearl Harbor, the pilots saw the rising sun
with streaks of rays just like their flag, they considered that as a
sign from their god, confirming their victory for the coming battle.
They had a resounding success over Pearl Harbor.

If you read the stories of Hiduism, you will find there are many
battles where god intervened and helped the various armies. Do those
stories contitute prove that the Indians are a chosen people. In the
mythology of the Teutonic people. the Valkyries certainly did come and
help them at times, does that make them a chosen people?

Recently released videos showed how Osama bin Laden was rejoicing and
said "Allah is great" when the WTC towers were destroyed. That a bunch
of less than 20 terrorists managed to destroy two great buildings right
in the heart of powerful USA, does that mean that Allah was on their
side? That's what Osama and his gang believe.

What is the difference between believing that that evil act was an act
of their god as against your believe that the evil act of the genocide
of the Amalek was the work of your god?

What's the difference between the "supernatural" acts of manna from
heaven etc. and the supernatural acts in the Hindu mythologies.
(Incidentally, one of the gods of Hindu, Krishna, was born because
according to Hindu lore, the earth at that time was full of evil and
crying out for a savior. Krishna, the god therefore decided to be born
to save the mankind. The evil king on hearing that, decided to kill all
the babies born at the time of Krishna's birth, just like Herod killing
all the babies. Krishna's parents then had to escape to another place to
help save Krishna's life. In another religion, Zorastria, their
mythology is similar to Christianity. There is heaven and earth, and
their god, Mazda also decided to come to earth to save men from evil.
Mazda was then born from a VIRGIN. At his birth, again the king decided
to kill all the infants!!! Zorastian religion was that of the early
Iranian, and THEY too considered themselves the chosen people!!
Both Krishna and Mazda wrought various miracles, including raising from
the dead. Both taught of a final day of judgment.)

Back to the exodus. The plague again demonstrate the god of the Bible
is an evil infanticidal maniac. The last plague, the first born were
killed. What had the first born done? Again, infanticide was perpetuated
not even because of their fathers, but because of their king, the
Pharaoh. And here, it is even worse,

Exodus 10:27 "But the Lord hardened Pharoah's heart, and he was
unwilling to let them go.
Romans 9:17-18 "For the scripture saith unto Pharoah, even for this
same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee,
and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore
hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he
hardeneth."

This indicated that the reason Pharaoah refused to let Moses and his
gang go was because your god has hardened his heart. He was then
punished by suffereing infanticide. All this to show god's power? You
must be joking when you said your god was loving and merciful.

Imagine you have a dog in a tiny cage. I as a police, having stolen the
key to that cage then come and said you were a cruel and bad person
because you kept that dog in such a tiny cage. You could not let the dog
out because you didn't have the key. You don't have the key because I
have taken it. Then because you have broken the law, I now kill your
son. Am I a righteous and loving person? That is the scenario with
regards to the Exodus/Pharoah last plaque. By quoting that to prove that
Isreal has a special relationship with god, only proved that your god is
cruel, rapateous and not loving nor just at all.

Every people, has in its early history, myths and mythologies showing
how the gods were on their side.

Statement no 8, you said that the Amalike children who died are under
god's special protection. What evidence do you have for that? I quote
from Psalm 137:8-9 "O daughter Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall they
be who pay you back what you have done to us! Happy shall they be who
take your little ones and dash them against the rock!" Are these little
children from Babylon also under god's protection? Another bit of
infanticide done under god's name.

You said ,"Christians do not have the same kind of authority of a
nation, like Israel." I take this to mean that what the Crusades did was
wrong. Their massacre of a whole city in the name of god was wrong,
because the Crusaders' covenant with god was on a one to one individual
basis, and not as a nation. Similarly, Milosevic could not justify his
genocide and infanticide of the Kosovo Muslim becuase his nation did not
have a covenant with god to carry out those act of genocide and
infanticide. Whereas, Israel, as a nation, because of its covenant with
god, has a right to carry out genocide and infanticied in the name of
god.

If that is what you meant, then God fobid. It explains what's happening
in the Middle East today, and all the more, that book, The Bible, has to
be declared a "Dangerous Book" and not the "Good Book".

Pax Vobiscum,

fifth response

As I have said, anyone can make a claim but it is certainly another
matter of validating that claim.  With Israel God had told them
beforehand what He would do so that there would be no question as to who
was doing it and why it was being done.  It was not done on a whim with
everyone left to try to figure who or what happened afterwords.  Now, as
I have also said, the evidence is presented fairly well by McDowell and
others for the validity of the Bible.  Just because one does not like
something does not make it not true.  And this may be the real issue
here.  It is not that you have figured out that the Bible is a set of
myths but rather you don't like what it says and don't care whether it
is true or not.  Perhaps you simply because you do not like what it says
and that is the end of the story and you don't want to investigate the
evidence.  If the Bible is true and God is indeed good then perhaps the
problem is your not understanding God's ways.  After all, I'm sure there
were times when you were a child that your parents did something that
you thought was "mean and cruel" to you but as you got older you 
realized that they were looking out for your best interest and at the
time you lacked a full understanding.

THe fact is is that this Universe was created by God and belongs to Him.
 He has the right to give life and to take it away.  He is good and
just.  These factors all are present.  Hence, God takes away life using
things such as old age, accidents, natural disasters, wars, etc.  Since
God is sovereign over all things in His Creation we must conclude that
these things are necessarily used by Him to do these things.  The
implication of this is that God has delegated this authority into His
Creation.  And because God is just He will bring about His justice at
times through His Creation.  In particular, He used Israel to bring
about His justice against the Amalakites.  So to dispute this one must
not like one of the two following: 1) God's absolute sovereignty over
all life and death and His right to use whatever and whomever He wills
or 2) God's justice and His right to execute it anyway He sees fit.